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	<title>Comments on: The Shack &#8211; Is It a Healthy Read?</title>
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	<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/</link>
	<description>Proclaiming the Glory of God in Jesus Christ</description>
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		<title>By: Randy Volters</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-2885</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Volters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-2885</guid>
		<description>Hi Jay - 

I just read Dr. Mohler&#039;s article on this book.

I freely admit that I have not read it, however, I will say I have had a disquiet in the pit of my stomach from conversations with people that have recommended this &#039;great book&#039; to me to read.

The disquiet comes from the way they present it to me, what they say about what it says about God.

If Dr. Mohler is only half-way accurate in his review of this book, then I think you&#039;ve been very reserved in your criticism.

This is heresy of the first order.  It is the author creating a Trinity that fits his un-Biblical view of salvation; a God that has no wrath toward sin or sinners?  Really?  Where did the author read that in the Bible?  A Jesus that have never exercised anything about his divine nature?  Really?  Ever?  How about when He created all existence?  Was that just &#039;the son drawing on the Father&#039; like some parasitic being?

This is a violation of the commandment to not make an image of a god and worship it.

The bad representations of the persons of the Trinity reflect a poor understanding of exactly what the Bible teaches about the persons of the Trinity; and it says a lot about the author&#039;s heterodoxy.

Yeah, the idea that this is harmless because after all &#039;it is just a book&#039; as one commenter relates shows the lack of serious thought and discernment often goes for the reader as well as the author.

I can think of several books that have caused great harm - Mien Kampf and Das Kapital leap to mind without much effort.

Far from dodging doctrine, it is time for the church to start teaching it without apology or compromise.  It is time for the church to start telling the &quot;anything goes&quot; crowd of Christians, &quot;Nope, sorry.  The only truths that are going to be accepted around here are the truths that are spelled out plainly and clearly in Scripture; and the church expects all Christians to adhere to them without compromise, or you must admit to yourself that you are, after all, not an adherent to orthodoxy; therefore not a Christian at all.

Oooooh, that sounds exclusionary doesn&#039;t it?  Yeah, kind of like Jesus in Matthew 7.

Glad I didn&#039;t waste my money on this book, and thankful I didn&#039;t get my head full of these heresies.

SOLA SCRIPTURA
Randy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jay &#8211; </p>
<p>I just read Dr. Mohler&#8217;s article on this book.</p>
<p>I freely admit that I have not read it, however, I will say I have had a disquiet in the pit of my stomach from conversations with people that have recommended this &#8216;great book&#8217; to me to read.</p>
<p>The disquiet comes from the way they present it to me, what they say about what it says about God.</p>
<p>If Dr. Mohler is only half-way accurate in his review of this book, then I think you&#8217;ve been very reserved in your criticism.</p>
<p>This is heresy of the first order.  It is the author creating a Trinity that fits his un-Biblical view of salvation; a God that has no wrath toward sin or sinners?  Really?  Where did the author read that in the Bible?  A Jesus that have never exercised anything about his divine nature?  Really?  Ever?  How about when He created all existence?  Was that just &#8216;the son drawing on the Father&#8217; like some parasitic being?</p>
<p>This is a violation of the commandment to not make an image of a god and worship it.</p>
<p>The bad representations of the persons of the Trinity reflect a poor understanding of exactly what the Bible teaches about the persons of the Trinity; and it says a lot about the author&#8217;s heterodoxy.</p>
<p>Yeah, the idea that this is harmless because after all &#8216;it is just a book&#8217; as one commenter relates shows the lack of serious thought and discernment often goes for the reader as well as the author.</p>
<p>I can think of several books that have caused great harm &#8211; Mien Kampf and Das Kapital leap to mind without much effort.</p>
<p>Far from dodging doctrine, it is time for the church to start teaching it without apology or compromise.  It is time for the church to start telling the &#8220;anything goes&#8221; crowd of Christians, &#8220;Nope, sorry.  The only truths that are going to be accepted around here are the truths that are spelled out plainly and clearly in Scripture; and the church expects all Christians to adhere to them without compromise, or you must admit to yourself that you are, after all, not an adherent to orthodoxy; therefore not a Christian at all.</p>
<p>Oooooh, that sounds exclusionary doesn&#8217;t it?  Yeah, kind of like Jesus in Matthew 7.</p>
<p>Glad I didn&#8217;t waste my money on this book, and thankful I didn&#8217;t get my head full of these heresies.</p>
<p>SOLA SCRIPTURA<br />
Randy</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Wingard</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-2290</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Wingard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-2290</guid>
		<description>Hi Mary,
I appreciate you taking the time to comment. One thing I would ask you to ponder. Let&#039;s say a friend tells you that they have found a book that helps them to grow closer to God and therefore assume that the book must be good because it produces the effect of someone believing or feeling like they are growing closer to God. Do you realize that every Mormon you run into will tell you that the Book of Mormon or the Pearl of Great Price has brought them closer to God. The problem is - wrong God! Same with the Shack. This book downright describes and portrays God in a way that is not Biblical and by most accounts heretical. We have got to be more discerning and return to fighting the good fight of faith with regards to orthodox doctrine - otherwise you might as well read the Book of Mormon or the Watchtower. You mentioned in your comment that we are being judgmental. Absolutely I am. We are called to judge very carefully what we read and listen to. We are called to be extremely discerning for the god of this world disguises himself as an angel of light and loves to use 99 percent truth with 1 percent error.

People argue over doctrine because the Bible tells us to.

Soli Deo Gloria</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mary,<br />
I appreciate you taking the time to comment. One thing I would ask you to ponder. Let&#8217;s say a friend tells you that they have found a book that helps them to grow closer to God and therefore assume that the book must be good because it produces the effect of someone believing or feeling like they are growing closer to God. Do you realize that every Mormon you run into will tell you that the Book of Mormon or the Pearl of Great Price has brought them closer to God. The problem is &#8211; wrong God! Same with the Shack. This book downright describes and portrays God in a way that is not Biblical and by most accounts heretical. We have got to be more discerning and return to fighting the good fight of faith with regards to orthodox doctrine &#8211; otherwise you might as well read the Book of Mormon or the Watchtower. You mentioned in your comment that we are being judgmental. Absolutely I am. We are called to judge very carefully what we read and listen to. We are called to be extremely discerning for the god of this world disguises himself as an angel of light and loves to use 99 percent truth with 1 percent error.</p>
<p>People argue over doctrine because the Bible tells us to.</p>
<p>Soli Deo Gloria</p>
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		<title>By: Mary English</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-2289</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary English</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 03:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-2289</guid>
		<description>You will know them by their fruits, why do people argue over doctrine.  Has the book brought people closer to wanting a relationship with God or has it pushed them to a Godless lifestyle.  I have not met anyone who did not feel closer to God and a stronger desire to know Him after reading the book.  Obviously the book is fiction. Readers are not taking it as the BIBLE.  How sad and judgmental.  This is why people RUN away from the Church. They don&#039;t run from God, they run from from the judgmental people who over react to a book who was just trying to help people shake their stereo typical view of God.  He is so much more than any of us can imagine.  Eye hath not seen....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You will know them by their fruits, why do people argue over doctrine.  Has the book brought people closer to wanting a relationship with God or has it pushed them to a Godless lifestyle.  I have not met anyone who did not feel closer to God and a stronger desire to know Him after reading the book.  Obviously the book is fiction. Readers are not taking it as the BIBLE.  How sad and judgmental.  This is why people RUN away from the Church. They don&#8217;t run from God, they run from from the judgmental people who over react to a book who was just trying to help people shake their stereo typical view of God.  He is so much more than any of us can imagine.  Eye hath not seen&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-2172</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-2172</guid>
		<description>Thanks. I have read them all &amp; listened to most. It was the author&#039;s own words and his teachings on CD that showed me the truth about the deeper intent &amp; message of the book. But it took bowing my knee and my head to a Holy, unchanging God and submitting my emotions in obedience to His Word and eternal will that brought me here!  
http://rock-life.com/KAYP.html the full interview - in his own words! 
I am deeply saddend and in mourning over the weakness in the body of Christ in these times - I also see my own whimpering fear to go before a ministry team of 70, most of whom are enamoured by the book, soaking up the teachings of its author like it is the Word itself! That alone should alert us as God&#039;s children...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. I have read them all &amp; listened to most. It was the author&#8217;s own words and his teachings on CD that showed me the truth about the deeper intent &amp; message of the book. But it took bowing my knee and my head to a Holy, unchanging God and submitting my emotions in obedience to His Word and eternal will that brought me here!<br />
<a href="http://rock-life.com/KAYP.html" rel="nofollow">http://rock-life.com/KAYP.html</a> the full interview &#8211; in his own words!<br />
I am deeply saddend and in mourning over the weakness in the body of Christ in these times &#8211; I also see my own whimpering fear to go before a ministry team of 70, most of whom are enamoured by the book, soaking up the teachings of its author like it is the Word itself! That alone should alert us as God&#8217;s children&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Wingard</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-2171</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Wingard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-2171</guid>
		<description>Will do Ruth. Be sure to take advantage of the great resources on this book by folks like Albert Mohler as well.  (The links to the resources are provided in the post.) May the Lord bless you as you boldly seek to bring all glory, honor and praise to the Lamb who was worthy to be slain!  Soli Deo Gloria!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will do Ruth. Be sure to take advantage of the great resources on this book by folks like Albert Mohler as well.  (The links to the resources are provided in the post.) May the Lord bless you as you boldly seek to bring all glory, honor and praise to the Lamb who was worthy to be slain!  Soli Deo Gloria!</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-2170</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-2170</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-2169&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Jay Wingard &lt;/a&gt; 
I was surprised to get such an instant reply. Do pray for me as I stand alone before the ministry team this Sunday and boldly state the Lord&#039;s case! No apologies! Pray that others who have doubts about using this tool will stand up with me and that the Lord&#039;s Name will be glorified!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-2169" rel="nofollow">@Jay Wingard </a><br />
I was surprised to get such an instant reply. Do pray for me as I stand alone before the ministry team this Sunday and boldly state the Lord&#8217;s case! No apologies! Pray that others who have doubts about using this tool will stand up with me and that the Lord&#8217;s Name will be glorified!</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Wingard</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-2169</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Wingard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-2169</guid>
		<description>Wow.. well said Ruth.  Thanks for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.. well said Ruth.  Thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-2168</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-2168</guid>
		<description>Jay - With the many lovers of Jesus &amp; our Holy Father like Terry, I praise the Lord for the few who still choose fidelity to the revealed Word of God to the point where we don&#039;t contradict what is plainly stated in Scripture. I spent 2 months on my knees wrestling over this issue before our Lord. I did read the book, for those who wonder. 

Our church&#039;s prison ministry team chose to use this book as a Bible Study tool and I have now chosen to stop attending (until they are done with this material) a ministry I know without a shadow of a doubt that God has called me into, because of I Timothy 4:16 “Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” (NIV), Deut 13:1-4, Gal 1:8-10, Tit. 2:7-8, Revelation 22:18-19, Proverbs 30:5-6 &amp; a multitude of other verses. Obedience is better than sacrifice! 

There is simply no room for compromise in God&#039;s economy. No false teacher presents himself as a bad person with obviously bad doctrine. Not that I for a moment judge or question Paul Young&#039;s faith - that is God&#039;s prerogative. But with the Scripture as the only yardstick, the Shack is built on sand, al be it a beautiful, pure white, soft, heavenly beach type sand that feels so very good between our toes.  I do not judge Paul Young or his personal faith - he has to be a deep being to write such a profound &amp; compelling book with such a massive effect on his readers, but his doctrine is contrary to God&#039;s Word. Nowhere in the book does he ever qoute Scrupture directly. Yes it is a work of fiction but the intent is to teach about God per the author himself and per his subsequent teachings - so it is a teaching on doctrine set in a fictional context.  Do I doubt the book can profoundly affect people&#039;s faith &amp; understanding of our Loving God? Not at all, it is God&#039;s Spirit who does the work in people, regardless of the source.  Thankfully a lot of people are ignorant and purely innocent enough in their faith that they will never recognize or realize the error presented, and I know the Holy Spirit can and will protect His own - but as for me, I have to strongly reject the book as a person responsible before a Holy God. I pray for God to use this to help people see the need for doctrinal soundness over emotional value.

I love the Lord more than life itself, have a degree in theology &amp; have studied &amp; taught the Word extensively for 20 years &amp; yet I ALMOST fell for this sweet, profoundly touching book because it reaches specifically that place deep within us that God Himself placed within us - the desire to have a deep, open, honest &amp; palpably real relationship with Him.  It resonated deeply with what I have experienced in my own relationship with the Lord! Thus it was not easy for me to make this 180 degree turn, but praise be to God, His Truth prevailed in my heart. I humbly submitted to His gentle, gracious correction but felt deeply disturbed and pained in my own temporary lack of discernment in this matter for the several months that I read and defended the book - all because of the beautiful emotions the book ellicited within my soul! 

I believe that my gracious Lord allowed this so that I would have a deep understanding of just how subtly false doctrine can creep into our hearts through such an &quot;innocent&quot; tool as a work of fiction. How incredibly hard it is to defend the Lord&#039;s Truth and His Word anymore in this generation where truth is relative, love trumps doctrine &amp; experience and emotions take precedence over obedience and Biblical facts! So keep standing on God&#039;s Word - HE does not change!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay &#8211; With the many lovers of Jesus &amp; our Holy Father like Terry, I praise the Lord for the few who still choose fidelity to the revealed Word of God to the point where we don&#8217;t contradict what is plainly stated in Scripture. I spent 2 months on my knees wrestling over this issue before our Lord. I did read the book, for those who wonder. </p>
<p>Our church&#8217;s prison ministry team chose to use this book as a Bible Study tool and I have now chosen to stop attending (until they are done with this material) a ministry I know without a shadow of a doubt that God has called me into, because of I Timothy 4:16 “Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” (NIV), Deut 13:1-4, Gal 1:8-10, Tit. 2:7-8, Revelation 22:18-19, Proverbs 30:5-6 &amp; a multitude of other verses. Obedience is better than sacrifice! </p>
<p>There is simply no room for compromise in God&#8217;s economy. No false teacher presents himself as a bad person with obviously bad doctrine. Not that I for a moment judge or question Paul Young&#8217;s faith &#8211; that is God&#8217;s prerogative. But with the Scripture as the only yardstick, the Shack is built on sand, al be it a beautiful, pure white, soft, heavenly beach type sand that feels so very good between our toes.  I do not judge Paul Young or his personal faith &#8211; he has to be a deep being to write such a profound &amp; compelling book with such a massive effect on his readers, but his doctrine is contrary to God&#8217;s Word. Nowhere in the book does he ever qoute Scrupture directly. Yes it is a work of fiction but the intent is to teach about God per the author himself and per his subsequent teachings &#8211; so it is a teaching on doctrine set in a fictional context.  Do I doubt the book can profoundly affect people&#8217;s faith &amp; understanding of our Loving God? Not at all, it is God&#8217;s Spirit who does the work in people, regardless of the source.  Thankfully a lot of people are ignorant and purely innocent enough in their faith that they will never recognize or realize the error presented, and I know the Holy Spirit can and will protect His own &#8211; but as for me, I have to strongly reject the book as a person responsible before a Holy God. I pray for God to use this to help people see the need for doctrinal soundness over emotional value.</p>
<p>I love the Lord more than life itself, have a degree in theology &amp; have studied &amp; taught the Word extensively for 20 years &amp; yet I ALMOST fell for this sweet, profoundly touching book because it reaches specifically that place deep within us that God Himself placed within us &#8211; the desire to have a deep, open, honest &amp; palpably real relationship with Him.  It resonated deeply with what I have experienced in my own relationship with the Lord! Thus it was not easy for me to make this 180 degree turn, but praise be to God, His Truth prevailed in my heart. I humbly submitted to His gentle, gracious correction but felt deeply disturbed and pained in my own temporary lack of discernment in this matter for the several months that I read and defended the book &#8211; all because of the beautiful emotions the book ellicited within my soul! </p>
<p>I believe that my gracious Lord allowed this so that I would have a deep understanding of just how subtly false doctrine can creep into our hearts through such an &#8220;innocent&#8221; tool as a work of fiction. How incredibly hard it is to defend the Lord&#8217;s Truth and His Word anymore in this generation where truth is relative, love trumps doctrine &amp; experience and emotions take precedence over obedience and Biblical facts! So keep standing on God&#8217;s Word &#8211; HE does not change!</p>
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		<title>By: Terri</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-1850</link>
		<dc:creator>Terri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-1850</guid>
		<description>Jay, thank you for standing up for the Truth.  Thank you for not backing down.  Keep pressing on, brother, toward the goal to win the prize for which you have been called heavenward in Christ Jesus!!!

Terri</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, thank you for standing up for the Truth.  Thank you for not backing down.  Keep pressing on, brother, toward the goal to win the prize for which you have been called heavenward in Christ Jesus!!!</p>
<p>Terri</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Wingard</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-1761</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Wingard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-1761</guid>
		<description>Elliot,
Instead of going back and forth in comments, I would recommend that you watch this video by Dr. Michael Youssef where he spoke to his church on the problems of this book. As I mentioned in my last comment, the list was taken from Youssef&#039;s web site on The Shack. This video touches on William Young&#039;s universalism as well as the major issues with The Shack.

In addition, he has provided a line by line comparison between his list of 13 heresies along with the quote and page number from the book along with what Scripture truly says. Here is the link to view this detailed document....
http://www.leadingtheway.org/site/DocServer/SpecOffer_The13HeresiesExplained.pdf?docID=1821

I would also be curious to see how you as a seminary student handles this quote:
Papa tells Mack, “I don’t need to punish people for sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring from the inside. It’s not my purpose to punish it; it’s my joy to cure it.” 

Is not this one amazing and heretical view from this book enough to cause you to declare it just wrong. How can you approve such a statement? I am just curious.

I would encourage you to also listen to Dr. Al Mohler critical review of The Shack as well:
http://www.albertmohler.com/radio_show.php?cdate=2008-04-11

Here is the link to the video by Dr. Youssef:
http://www.leadingtheway.org/site/PageServer?pagename=sto_TheShack_13heresies</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elliot,<br />
Instead of going back and forth in comments, I would recommend that you watch this video by Dr. Michael Youssef where he spoke to his church on the problems of this book. As I mentioned in my last comment, the list was taken from Youssef&#8217;s web site on The Shack. This video touches on William Young&#8217;s universalism as well as the major issues with The Shack.</p>
<p>In addition, he has provided a line by line comparison between his list of 13 heresies along with the quote and page number from the book along with what Scripture truly says. Here is the link to view this detailed document&#8230;.<br />
<a href="http://www.leadingtheway.org/site/DocServer/SpecOffer_The13HeresiesExplained.pdf?docID=1821" rel="nofollow">http://www.leadingtheway.org/site/DocServer/SpecOffer_The13HeresiesExplained.pdf?docID=1821</a></p>
<p>I would also be curious to see how you as a seminary student handles this quote:<br />
Papa tells Mack, “I don’t need to punish people for sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring from the inside. It’s not my purpose to punish it; it’s my joy to cure it.” </p>
<p>Is not this one amazing and heretical view from this book enough to cause you to declare it just wrong. How can you approve such a statement? I am just curious.</p>
<p>I would encourage you to also listen to Dr. Al Mohler critical review of The Shack as well:<br />
<a href="http://www.albertmohler.com/radio_show.php?cdate=2008-04-11" rel="nofollow">http://www.albertmohler.com/radio_show.php?cdate=2008-04-11</a></p>
<p>Here is the link to the video by Dr. Youssef:<br />
<a href="http://www.leadingtheway.org/site/PageServer?pagename=sto_TheShack_13heresies" rel="nofollow">http://www.leadingtheway.org/site/PageServer?pagename=sto_TheShack_13heresies</a></p>
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		<title>By: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-1760</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-1760</guid>
		<description>Jay, thanks for the specifics. As far as the scars are concerned, it showed that the entire Godhead was connected and affected by what happened, but not that it was the Father becoming the Son. That actually then becomes abundantly clarified by the fact that all 3 members of the Trinity are present simultaneously. You can&#039;t get more anti-modalist than that. How are you defining Modalism?

Now let&#039;s take a closer look at that list you posted.

1. It does not say the Father was crucified. Do you have a page number and quote? It&#039;s quite clear that it was Jesus Himself, not the Father.
2. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?
3. This is heresy for the followers of reformed doctrine (goes against limited atonement). It&#039;s fine for anyone who isn&#039;t. Are you going to now say people who don&#039;t believe in limited atonement are going to hell?
4. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?
5. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?
6. This is not against any orthodox belief. In fact, there was a debate several months ago (that Wayne Grudem participated in) over the idea of if there is or is not an essential hierarchy within the Godhead. It&#039;s a discussion that is not settled, and you can be orthodox on either side of it.
7. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number? God allows human choices, but those choices do not mean that God obeys man.
8. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?
9. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?
10. There is nothing wrong with this belief (as the presupposition of the book is that Jesus is God). People come to Jesus through all different means, the important thing is that they come to Jesus. Not all of us have an identical conversion story, and there&#039;s nothing wrong with that.
11. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?
12. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?
13. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?

Honestly Jay, if you just read it for yourself with an open mind, you&#039;ll save yourself a lot of trouble. Do the homework for yourself. Find the answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, thanks for the specifics. As far as the scars are concerned, it showed that the entire Godhead was connected and affected by what happened, but not that it was the Father becoming the Son. That actually then becomes abundantly clarified by the fact that all 3 members of the Trinity are present simultaneously. You can&#8217;t get more anti-modalist than that. How are you defining Modalism?</p>
<p>Now let&#8217;s take a closer look at that list you posted.</p>
<p>1. It does not say the Father was crucified. Do you have a page number and quote? It&#8217;s quite clear that it was Jesus Himself, not the Father.<br />
2. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?<br />
3. This is heresy for the followers of reformed doctrine (goes against limited atonement). It&#8217;s fine for anyone who isn&#8217;t. Are you going to now say people who don&#8217;t believe in limited atonement are going to hell?<br />
4. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?<br />
5. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?<br />
6. This is not against any orthodox belief. In fact, there was a debate several months ago (that Wayne Grudem participated in) over the idea of if there is or is not an essential hierarchy within the Godhead. It&#8217;s a discussion that is not settled, and you can be orthodox on either side of it.<br />
7. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number? God allows human choices, but those choices do not mean that God obeys man.<br />
8. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?<br />
9. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?<br />
10. There is nothing wrong with this belief (as the presupposition of the book is that Jesus is God). People come to Jesus through all different means, the important thing is that they come to Jesus. Not all of us have an identical conversion story, and there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that.<br />
11. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?<br />
12. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?<br />
13. This is not taught in the book. Do you have a quote and a page number?</p>
<p>Honestly Jay, if you just read it for yourself with an open mind, you&#8217;ll save yourself a lot of trouble. Do the homework for yourself. Find the answers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Wingard</title>
		<link>http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/05/10/the-shack-a-popular-book-full-of-heresy/comment-page-1/#comment-1757</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Wingard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaywingard.com/?p=136#comment-1757</guid>
		<description>Elliot,
To directly answer your question on modalism:

At times the Trinity is shown in modalistic terms. How do you handle the scene in the book where &quot;Papa&quot; reveals the nail scars on her hands? (And is it not ridiculous to say &quot;her&quot; there? I mean come on!)  Paul Young has commented on this accusation quoting 2 Cor 5:19 but this would be VERY eisegetical.

The more you look into The Shack you also see that the book teaches tri-theism (three individual gods) more so than modalism but modalism is clearly taught.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elliot,<br />
To directly answer your question on modalism:</p>
<p>At times the Trinity is shown in modalistic terms. How do you handle the scene in the book where &#8220;Papa&#8221; reveals the nail scars on her hands? (And is it not ridiculous to say &#8220;her&#8221; there? I mean come on!)  Paul Young has commented on this accusation quoting 2 Cor 5:19 but this would be VERY eisegetical.</p>
<p>The more you look into The Shack you also see that the book teaches tri-theism (three individual gods) more so than modalism but modalism is clearly taught.</p>
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