Comments on: What Has Happened to the American Church? http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/ Proclaiming the Glory of God in Jesus Christ Mon, 30 Jan 2012 13:30:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Landry Poole http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1989 Landry Poole Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:20:54 +0000 http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/#comment-1989 Hello, I am to preach the Word to a congregation I have never met before. Matter of fact, this will be the first honor of such that has ever been bestowed upon me. Please pray for me. I am an Evangelist, and president of a Christian non-profit that brings the Gospel to those in need of medical care of multiple facets, here in the USA. However, I was asked recently to come and present to a congregation that two of its Elders had been partakers in this ministry. I accepted after seeking council and prayer, and I warned him, :) that I am a missionary/evangelist at heart, and that I might not present the Word like they were use to hearing. He told me, "Bring It!". I believe that we have two huge problems in the church, amoung others. First, the belief in the litteral reading of the John 3:16, and not understanding the real meaning behind "Belief", for the Demons believe and tremble. Second, our children are being deceived daily in the public school system, and they are leaving the church at 70% recorded after leaving the home, and the number one question they have is. "How old is the earth?". This is killing us. The devil has deceived "Many", as recorded in Mathew 7:22. Without understanding, knowledge, and Faith that "God did Say!", then how can our youth have any power and authority to stand? I have spoken to Pastor's wives, in the presence of their husband, just like Eve, and they have told me, "I'm not worried about Genesis, as long as they love the Lord". WOW!, If one does not believe Genesis, then how can they stand against the enemy, when it is this are of scripture that is under attack? Further, the enemy is educating the lost to such degree, that they even convince believers to doubt, like Eve, and turn away from God, yet parents say, "Genesis is not important."!!?? Folks, it is the WHOLE COUNCIL of GOD, not just portions we understand. Sunday school should be for the teaching of Science, to counter the devil. To arm our children with the right knowledge to defend their faith, and even witness the Truth, and turn hearts away from the the deceiver. Again, 70% leave after leaving the home! 40% of these say they had questions about Creation in Middle School, 45% in High School, and only 10% in College. The strudy was done on young adults ages 20-29 who had left the church, but to be part of the study, had to of gone to a Christian chruch since birth. In other words, the Truth is much worse. How can I trust in Jesus, if I can not believe God the Father? Folks, the enemy is challenging you in Genensis. What are you going to do? If you believe in millions/billions of years, you call God and Christ a lier. Think about that. You might think you are saved, but what about your children? Can you defend your faith against and evolutionist in front of your children? Do you have an answer for the hope you have within? I enjoyed reading the comments. I believe, Praise the Lord, that there is a revival going on amoung the Many, but Few will answer. It is that Few we must go after, as they are currently, the Many. Hello,

I am to preach the Word to a congregation I have never met before. Matter of fact, this will be the first honor of such that has ever been bestowed upon me. Please pray for me. I am an Evangelist, and president of a Christian non-profit that brings the Gospel to those in need of medical care of multiple facets, here in the USA. However, I was asked recently to come and present to a congregation that two of its Elders had been partakers in this ministry. I accepted after seeking council and prayer, and I warned him, :) that I am a missionary/evangelist at heart, and that I might not present the Word like they were use to hearing. He told me, “Bring It!”.

I believe that we have two huge problems in the church, amoung others. First, the belief in the litteral reading of the John 3:16, and not understanding the real meaning behind “Belief”, for the Demons believe and tremble. Second, our children are being deceived daily in the public school system, and they are leaving the church at 70% recorded after leaving the home, and the number one question they have is. “How old is the earth?”. This is killing us. The devil has deceived “Many”, as recorded in Mathew 7:22. Without understanding, knowledge, and Faith that “God did Say!”, then how can our youth have any power and authority to stand? I have spoken to Pastor’s wives, in the presence of their husband, just like Eve, and they have told me, “I’m not worried about Genesis, as long as they love the Lord”. WOW!, If one does not believe Genesis, then how can they stand against the enemy, when it is this are of scripture that is under attack? Further, the enemy is educating the lost to such degree, that they even convince believers to doubt, like Eve, and turn away from God, yet parents say, “Genesis is not important.”!!?? Folks, it is the WHOLE COUNCIL of GOD, not just portions we understand.

Sunday school should be for the teaching of Science, to counter the devil. To arm our children with the right knowledge to defend their faith, and even witness the Truth, and turn hearts away from the the deceiver.

Again, 70% leave after leaving the home! 40% of these say they had questions about Creation in Middle School, 45% in High School, and only 10% in College. The strudy was done on young adults ages 20-29 who had left the church, but to be part of the study, had to of gone to a Christian chruch since birth. In other words, the Truth is much worse. How can I trust in Jesus, if I can not believe God the Father? Folks, the enemy is challenging you in Genensis. What are you going to do? If you believe in millions/billions of years, you call God and Christ a lier. Think about that. You might think you are saved, but what about your children? Can you defend your faith against and evolutionist in front of your children? Do you have an answer for the hope you have within? I enjoyed reading the comments. I believe, Praise the Lord, that there is a revival going on amoung the Many, but Few will answer. It is that Few we must go after, as they are currently, the Many.

]]> By: Jim http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1381 Jim Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:05:26 +0000 http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/#comment-1381 Wow. these are great comments all of them. I do believe the organized church has become a social club. We eat, meet and greet, eat some more, listen to live music and then hear a nice feel good sermon and call that worship. My feeling is people in general do not want to have to think. They want to feel good so the music makes them feel good, the sermons make them feel good and they come away feeling good but having learned absolutuely nothing new. The church as exchanged intellectual stimulation, the pursuit of knowledge, wisdom and understanding for some weak idea of worship and fellowship. Relationships seem to be more important than a deeper understanding of the personality of God. I have come to the point that I attend church out of habit but as for worship I do that on my own. As for any deeper learning, I do that on my own. I no longer look to the church for my spiritual growth because it is not there. Wow. these are great comments all of them. I do believe the organized church has become a social club. We eat, meet and greet, eat some more, listen to live music and then hear a nice feel good sermon and call that worship. My feeling is people in general do not want to have to think. They want to feel good so the music makes them feel good, the sermons make them feel good and they come away feeling good but having learned absolutuely nothing new. The church as exchanged intellectual stimulation, the pursuit of knowledge, wisdom and understanding for some weak idea of worship and fellowship. Relationships seem to be more important than a deeper understanding of the personality of God.
I have come to the point that I attend church out of habit but as for worship I do that on my own. As for any deeper learning, I do that on my own. I no longer look to the church for my spiritual growth because it is not there.

]]> By: Larry http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/comment-page-1/#comment-996 Larry Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:52:04 +0000 http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/#comment-996 I agree and disagree. That the visible church has lost her way is undeniable. But, you must recognize the nature and purpose of the church gathering. The church gathers to worship, edify, equip, heal, teach etc. To grow and mature....till we all reach unity...grow up and become mature. The result should be evangelism as God's people are empowered and equipped to share the gospel to the world. While I'm certainly not opposed sharing the gospel "in church", evangelism is not the primary function when the church gathers. The command to make disciples is "go". The traditional church has reversed this command to "come" (to church). We NEVER really GO to church, we ARE the church. We, the church, are to go and make disciples, not bring people into a building (erroneously called the church) to have the holy man (Pastor) preach the gospel so they will get saved. God's way is always best. Let's BE the church, not GO to church I agree and disagree. That the visible church has lost her way is undeniable. But, you must recognize the nature and purpose of the church gathering. The church gathers to worship, edify, equip, heal, teach etc. To grow and mature….till we all reach unity…grow up and become mature. The result should be evangelism as God’s people are empowered and equipped to share the gospel to the world. While I’m certainly not opposed sharing the gospel “in church”, evangelism is not the primary function when the church gathers. The command to make disciples is “go”. The traditional church has reversed this command to “come” (to church). We NEVER really GO to church, we ARE the church. We, the church, are to go and make disciples, not bring people into a building (erroneously called the church) to have the holy man (Pastor) preach the gospel so they will get saved. God’s way is always best. Let’s BE the church, not GO to church

]]> By: Sky http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/comment-page-1/#comment-986 Sky Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:49:02 +0000 http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/#comment-986 It is painfully obvious that millions of Americans are completely turned off by church. Most of our nation claims to be Christians but only a small percentage of those people are actively committed to a local church. What in the world is going on? Something is terribly wrong. I posed this question to our congregation the very first Sunday that we met, "When did the church in America, especially here in the Bible belt, get hijacked by middle-class white Americans who have no problems?" I know that question may sting a little bit. It stung me as I asked it. Afterall, I am white and I have been middle class recently in my life. Yes, I have problems and issues - but I am like you, it is tough to admit them and come clean about them. It is much easier just to fake it and pretend everything is ok, but you know inside you are dying and wasting away. I have played the part of church before. I have said all of the right things and looked "churchy". Going through the motions is something I have done many times in my life. This is rampant in churches everywhere and I have been the guiltiest. Quite honestly, I am sick of the game. Jesus wants us to be real. He wants us to be transparent and open before Him and each other. This is what we are trying to be at Ecclesia. It is tough though and we are going to have to fight like crazy to protect it and keep it moving. I truly believe that the main turn off in churches today is a lack of realness. Churches have become social clubs and something that we just "do" on Sunday. The church has been institutionalized and is no longer viewed as a movement of God. Obviously, there is a huge difference between these two. One of my favorite authors is Warren Weirsbe. He said this, "It is a sad to see that most churches today are not workshops for adults, but rather playpens for children." Ouch. Tough statement, but very honest. It saddens me greatly that the church today has been tainted with ugliness and disgust when we were made to be so real and beautiful. I am ready to capture that beauty again. At all costs, I am prepared to become what Jesus has always intended for His bride to be. As a new church start here in Norman, I want your ideas, hopes and dreams for Ecclesia to be presented here on this page. Let's fight for this together. This thing called Christianity is incredible and we need to chase after it. It is painfully obvious that millions of Americans are completely turned off by church. Most of our nation claims to be Christians but only a small percentage of those people are actively committed to a local church.

What in the world is going on? Something is terribly wrong.

I posed this question to our congregation the very first Sunday that we met, “When did the church in America, especially here in the Bible belt, get hijacked by middle-class white Americans who have no problems?” I know that question may sting a little bit. It stung me as I asked it. Afterall, I am white and I have been middle class recently in my life. Yes, I have problems and issues – but I am like you, it is tough to admit them and come clean about them.

It is much easier just to fake it and pretend everything is ok, but you know inside you are dying and wasting away.

I have played the part of church before. I have said all of the right things and looked “churchy”. Going through the motions is something I have done many times in my life. This is rampant in churches everywhere and I have been the guiltiest.

Quite honestly, I am sick of the game. Jesus wants us to be real. He wants us to be transparent and open before Him and each other. This is what we are trying to be at Ecclesia. It is tough though and we are going to have to fight like crazy to protect it and keep it moving.

I truly believe that the main turn off in churches today is a lack of realness. Churches have become social clubs and something that we just “do” on Sunday. The church has been institutionalized and is no longer viewed as a movement of God. Obviously, there is a huge difference between these two. One of my favorite authors is Warren Weirsbe. He said this, “It is a sad to see that most churches today are not workshops for adults, but rather playpens for children.”

Ouch.

Tough statement, but very honest. It saddens me greatly that the church today has been tainted with ugliness and disgust when we were made to be so real and beautiful. I am ready to capture that beauty again. At all costs, I am prepared to become what Jesus has always intended for His bride to be.

As a new church start here in Norman, I want your ideas, hopes and dreams for Ecclesia to be presented here on this page. Let’s fight for this together. This thing called Christianity is incredible and we need to chase after it.

]]> By: Sky http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/comment-page-1/#comment-985 Sky Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:47:09 +0000 http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/#comment-985 I think that the problem with churches today are they are so numbered focused. Church is not about how many people oyu can get in a room. its abut growing deep and the width will take care of itself on Gods time. I think that the problem with churches today are they are so numbered focused. Church is not about how many people oyu can get in a room. its abut growing deep and the width will take care of itself on Gods time.

]]> By: Aditya http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/comment-page-1/#comment-935 Aditya Thu, 22 May 2008 02:26:57 +0000 http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/#comment-935 Thanks for this post. I truly pray that God raises up a generation of old-time preachers who talked about the law and sin, the righteousness and holiness of God and made the sinners really see their sin. As soon as you tell someone, come to Jesus and he'll make you feel less lonely, more loved etc instead of they are a sinner who truly needs to be saved from their sin...well ur right, the result is false converts to the church. Don't forget, only a remnant will remain in the last days. Thanks for this post. I truly pray that God raises up a generation of old-time preachers who talked about the law and sin, the righteousness and holiness of God and made the sinners really see their sin. As soon as you tell someone, come to Jesus and he’ll make you feel less lonely, more loved etc instead of they are a sinner who truly needs to be saved from their sin…well ur right, the result is false converts to the church. Don’t forget, only a remnant will remain in the last days.

]]> By: Mary http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/comment-page-1/#comment-881 Mary Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:31:58 +0000 http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/#comment-881 Hi Jay, I think you are right on about many church leaders focusing on numbers. I have seen plenty of leaders base their worth as a pastor by how many members the church has or how big the church building is. We have lost our focus on what is most important. I wonder if this has anything to do with worth before God. How many times do we "feel" good about what we are doing as Christians and side step Grace and fall into the "works" righteousness thinking? When we focus on works only we step on others and ignore true needs because it is now not about you but all about me. I pray the church will be healthy once again and when we gather together to worship we can encourage each other with joy and words of holiness. Hi Jay, I think you are right on about many church leaders focusing on numbers. I have seen plenty of leaders base their worth as a pastor by how many members the church has or how big the church building is. We have lost our focus on what is most important. I wonder if this has anything to do with worth before God. How many times do we “feel” good about what we are doing as Christians and side step Grace and fall into the “works” righteousness thinking? When we focus on works only we step on others and ignore true needs because it is now not about you but all about me.

I pray the church will be healthy once again and when we gather together to worship we can encourage each other with joy and words of holiness.

]]> By: Jay Wingard http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/comment-page-1/#comment-827 Jay Wingard Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:48:28 +0000 http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/#comment-827 Hey Adam - in response to your comment I feel that Sunday School in general is to disciple believers in the full counsel of God through inductive Bible study. It's the place to get the fork and knife out and really dig in to Scripture. It's the place that fosters spiritual growth and maturity as the regenerate are conformed more and more into the image of Christ through the Word. (Psalm 119) However, I also do not discount the opportunity every single Sunday to preach the Gospel in a Sunday school class. Every unregenerate person sitting in my class must hear it (given that everything in Scripture inevitably points to Christ) and every regenerate person should live the Gospel-centered life and should never, ever forget it. Just something to think about. :-) Hey Adam – in response to your comment I feel that Sunday School in general is to disciple believers in the full counsel of God through inductive Bible study. It’s the place to get the fork and knife out and really dig in to Scripture. It’s the place that fosters spiritual growth and maturity as the regenerate are conformed more and more into the image of Christ through the Word. (Psalm 119) However, I also do not discount the opportunity every single Sunday to preach the Gospel in a Sunday school class. Every unregenerate person sitting in my class must hear it (given that everything in Scripture inevitably points to Christ) and every regenerate person should live the Gospel-centered life and should never, ever forget it. Just something to think about. :-)

]]> By: Joe Morales http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/comment-page-1/#comment-826 Joe Morales Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:24:34 +0000 http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/#comment-826 Thank you , brother for being faithful to please our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and to possibly offend un-regenerate sinful man. I always say, we are going to offend one or the other, which will it be! I want to send this to my pastor, who is a contemporary of mine... we are both early 50s. He attempted to share the good news today, yet fell way short of driving it home. No mention of reprobation, repentance, propitiation, justice or holiness. I call it the Granny Gospel. Come to Granny with your sin and she will pat you on the head, give you a cookie and tell you everythings gonna be allright! I thank God that He is raising up a generation of young men as yourself who, in the face of godless postmodern rethoric, have chosen to take up their cross and follow Him! I will be spending more time here reading your blog. I am a publisher. God has called me to compile a maganine for Christian young men called Outstanding. We will address these kinds of issues at lenghth. Thank you , brother for being faithful to please our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and to possibly offend un-regenerate sinful man. I always say, we are going to offend one or the other, which will it be! I want to send this to my pastor, who is a contemporary of mine… we are both early 50s. He attempted to share the good news today, yet fell way short of driving it home. No mention of reprobation, repentance, propitiation, justice or holiness. I call it the Granny Gospel. Come to Granny with your sin and she will pat you on the head, give you a cookie and tell you everythings gonna be allright! I thank God that He is raising up a generation of young men as yourself who, in the face of godless postmodern rethoric, have chosen to take up their cross and follow Him! I will be spending more time here reading your blog. I am a publisher. God has called me to compile a maganine for Christian young men called Outstanding. We will address these kinds of issues at lenghth.

]]> By: Adam http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/comment-page-1/#comment-825 Adam Mon, 25 Feb 2008 03:30:48 +0000 http://www.jaywingard.com/2008/02/23/what-has-happened-to-the-american-church/#comment-825 Jay, I'm curious to see what you thing the purpose of a Sunday morning Sunday school class is for. Do you think that it is to make disciples through simple biblical study, or is the purpose of your class to simply study and grow as a community? What do you think of the closed small group where new members are not necessarily welcome to join. Another note: In essence the seeker sensitive movement is dead. Unregenerate people don't seek God, right? So like you said the gospel is not being preached in American churches that approach their commission that are "sensitive" to Unregenerate sinners. In other words they let culture guide their message rather than the word guide their message. May we see the church fall into submission to the head, Jesus Christ our Lord! Jay, I’m curious to see what you thing the purpose of a Sunday morning Sunday school class is for. Do you think that it is to make disciples through simple biblical study, or is the purpose of your class to simply study and grow as a community? What do you think of the closed small group where new members are not necessarily welcome to join. Another note: In essence the seeker sensitive movement is dead. Unregenerate people don’t seek God, right? So like you said the gospel is not being preached in American churches that approach their commission that are “sensitive” to Unregenerate sinners. In other words they let culture guide their message rather than the word guide their message. May we see the church fall into submission to the head, Jesus Christ our Lord!

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